Has anyone figured out if it's possible to remap the F700gs to the F800GS settings or best way to get the full power from the engine?
gooseofdeuce
for cam swap you should purchase a f800gs camshaft (i used f800r camshaft because i only ride on road)
then you need to remap the bmsk ecu, to f800 parameters or better (so did i)
for ecu programming i we talk about it in the italian forum http://f800riders.org/forum/showthread.php/47860-Programmazione-Centralina-F800
it is not so simple as it seems because engine behaviour is different and f700/f650 gs is better at low revs...
then you need to remap the bmsk ecu, to f800 parameters or better (so did i)
for ecu programming i we talk about it in the italian forum http://f800riders.org/forum/showthread.php/47860-Programmazione-Centralina-F800
it is not so simple as it seems because engine behaviour is different and f700/f650 gs is better at low revs...
i changed both intake and exhaust...
you're right, f650-700 are too lean, but you could improve this troble with iat sensor tweaking...
only with remap my f650 gs was wonderful at low revs i could drive in 6th gear with passenger in mountain road at only 200o rpm without problems, like on a diesel car (impossible with a stock f650 or f800)
after cam swap this wonderful torque i got at 3000 rpm is lost, but it is really impressive over 5000 rpm...
you're right, f650-700 are too lean, but you could improve this troble with iat sensor tweaking...
only with remap my f650 gs was wonderful at low revs i could drive in 6th gear with passenger in mountain road at only 200o rpm without problems, like on a diesel car (impossible with a stock f650 or f800)
after cam swap this wonderful torque i got at 3000 rpm is lost, but it is really impressive over 5000 rpm...
Too bad it is not in English, because I don't know of anyone "remapping" these bikes.
He put street bike cams in it. I suppose If you had the ECU from the donor, you could make it work, if you got by all the security. The bikes are programmed to recognize a particular ECU.
I know of 1 person posting on ADV several years ago, who did the same. After the cams were installed there were issues with the ECU. The thread died for lack further posts. Sounds like the same person.
I would love to know how to remap the ECU.
The ECU is pretty sophisticated. It has dozens of maps. In closed loop (look it up) it will try to maintain a 14.7 air fuel ratio. In Open loop it relies on sensors to use other maps. They include throttle plate position, air temp and pressure, RPM, oxygen sensor etc.
Imagine the possible combinations the ECU goes through to get the right map. The ECU is pretty smart. It remembers past settings and is always comparing them to what is happening in the present and will make adjustments between the two.
The air temp sensor is an example. It works in open loop. Eventually the ECU will note that closed loop settings (14.7 afr) do not compare with open loop air temp sensor readings and adjust them.
To get more power, you need to enrich the fuel mixture. You can use a Power Commander, that adds fuel to what the ECU is dialing up or a device called AF-Xied that spoofs the oxygen sensor to give signals back to the ECU, that a called for mixture of 14.7 afr, when in fact it is richer.
I have had the Booster plug and now have the AF-Xied. The Latter is way better. The Power Commander can be used with more specificity, enriching certain portions of particular map, but the AF-Xied is pretty close and a lot cheaper.
The benefit of using a down stream device like a Power Commander or tricking the Oxygen sensor to give richer mixtures, is you keep the stock maps and all there different applications.
He put street bike cams in it. I suppose If you had the ECU from the donor, you could make it work, if you got by all the security. The bikes are programmed to recognize a particular ECU.
I know of 1 person posting on ADV several years ago, who did the same. After the cams were installed there were issues with the ECU. The thread died for lack further posts. Sounds like the same person.
I would love to know how to remap the ECU.
The ECU is pretty sophisticated. It has dozens of maps. In closed loop (look it up) it will try to maintain a 14.7 air fuel ratio. In Open loop it relies on sensors to use other maps. They include throttle plate position, air temp and pressure, RPM, oxygen sensor etc.
Imagine the possible combinations the ECU goes through to get the right map. The ECU is pretty smart. It remembers past settings and is always comparing them to what is happening in the present and will make adjustments between the two.
The air temp sensor is an example. It works in open loop. Eventually the ECU will note that closed loop settings (14.7 afr) do not compare with open loop air temp sensor readings and adjust them.
To get more power, you need to enrich the fuel mixture. You can use a Power Commander, that adds fuel to what the ECU is dialing up or a device called AF-Xied that spoofs the oxygen sensor to give signals back to the ECU, that a called for mixture of 14.7 afr, when in fact it is richer.
I have had the Booster plug and now have the AF-Xied. The Latter is way better. The Power Commander can be used with more specificity, enriching certain portions of particular map, but the AF-Xied is pretty close and a lot cheaper.
The benefit of using a down stream device like a Power Commander or tricking the Oxygen sensor to give richer mixtures, is you keep the stock maps and all there different applications.
after cam swap i reprogrammed my original ecu, not installed the f800r ecu
but i reprogrammed also some other bike to friends (f800r,s,st, gs and f650gs)
so i could compare them and work out some agjustment for a gs with f800r cams...
anyway the job is hard, there are many little differences around the engine
(airbox and exhaust tube for istans)
it's a work in progress, im not a professional tuner, only an entusiast
i have no much time ti spend around this project and the fuel pomp failure masked some results..
so i lost time to do this job...
putting f800r cams and f800r ecu file on a f800gs is not the right way...
different engines need different setup...
but i reprogrammed also some other bike to friends (f800r,s,st, gs and f650gs)
so i could compare them and work out some agjustment for a gs with f800r cams...
anyway the job is hard, there are many little differences around the engine
(airbox and exhaust tube for istans)
it's a work in progress, im not a professional tuner, only an entusiast
i have no much time ti spend around this project and the fuel pomp failure masked some results..
so i lost time to do this job...
putting f800r cams and f800r ecu file on a f800gs is not the right way...
different engines need different setup...
I did on my f700gs (2014) exactly, what rwp2009 did: 16 tooth sprocket and accelerator module (similar to booster plug). I've read that booster plug is a kind of 'snake oil' / useless because ECU would soon adapt the settings. I can't argue with experts, but one can feel a huge diffrence compared to stock. Wonderful low rpms behaviour. No jerky throttle anymore and and no need for clutch feathering in roundabouts , she pulls away and accelerates like a bull, gear changes are considerably smoother. 16-sprocket shortens the gearing a little, thus contributing to a better acceleration as well. I consider these modifications a very good alternative to ecu remapping..
I have no connection this company http://sales.nightrider.com/BMW_upgrades.html I just bought their product. I have had an air temp spoofer for several years on my F800. They worked and I couldn't tell you if they got adapted out or not, because I got so used to it.
There are several threads about them and how they work on ADV. One thread comparing it to a Power Commander with auto tune, by someone who has had both. He was having difficulties getting that device dialed in and the longer he rode, the worse his mileage got. The 800 has a secondary air inlet for emissions. It was too technical for me and spread out on F800 and the 1200cc bike threads.
Its reasonably inexpensive, so I decided to test it myself. I did not remove the temp sensor, I just added the AF Xied. The results were immediate. It is most notable in the first 4 gear at lower rpm, which I thought counter intuitive. It provided better results than my recollection of the temp spoofer alone.
I have about 6,000 miles with no ill effects on the bike, or great loss of mileage. The bike felt strong enough to gear it up a tooth. That works for me, as it is good enough for easy dirt and the bike vibrates less at pavement speeds.
I tried several setting and currently I am running a 14.2 AFR. If you are under warranty I can under the reluctance and concerns about emissions.
But it works and I have no reason to believe it will loose its effectiveness with use. The theory behind it is sound.
There are several threads about them and how they work on ADV. One thread comparing it to a Power Commander with auto tune, by someone who has had both. He was having difficulties getting that device dialed in and the longer he rode, the worse his mileage got. The 800 has a secondary air inlet for emissions. It was too technical for me and spread out on F800 and the 1200cc bike threads.
Its reasonably inexpensive, so I decided to test it myself. I did not remove the temp sensor, I just added the AF Xied. The results were immediate. It is most notable in the first 4 gear at lower rpm, which I thought counter intuitive. It provided better results than my recollection of the temp spoofer alone.
I have about 6,000 miles with no ill effects on the bike, or great loss of mileage. The bike felt strong enough to gear it up a tooth. That works for me, as it is good enough for easy dirt and the bike vibrates less at pavement speeds.
I tried several setting and currently I am running a 14.2 AFR. If you are under warranty I can under the reluctance and concerns about emissions.
But it works and I have no reason to believe it will loose its effectiveness with use. The theory behind it is sound.
af-xied seem to work only on lambda signal...
it could be bone by tweaking only the lambda map on ecu, but i prefer tuning all the map in ecu to get the best performance
and to get exactly the engine behaviour i want....
also iat signal could be tuned in a clever way like lambda with af-xied
but i did it by myself because i noticed that all commercial plugs do this job in a rough way...
i wrote some web pages about these tricks, but they are in italian language....
any way i think it could be understanded that a ecu re programmation is the best thing to do.
here you are what i get on my bike only with ecu tuning:
http://digilander.libero.it/belinassu/F650GS/hp_16-tutte.pdf
http://digilander.libero.it/belinassu/F650GS/nm_16-tutte.pdf
red line is stock engine
light blued is only with my iat modification
dark blue is only with ecu reprogrammation
i put a 16 teeth sproket with stock bike also
after iat mod i put 17 teeth again
after reprogrammation i wish i would put a 18 teeth because with that torque improvement
i'm looking for a 7th gear while driving...
c
it could be bone by tweaking only the lambda map on ecu, but i prefer tuning all the map in ecu to get the best performance
and to get exactly the engine behaviour i want....
also iat signal could be tuned in a clever way like lambda with af-xied
but i did it by myself because i noticed that all commercial plugs do this job in a rough way...
i wrote some web pages about these tricks, but they are in italian language....
any way i think it could be understanded that a ecu re programmation is the best thing to do.
here you are what i get on my bike only with ecu tuning:
http://digilander.libero.it/belinassu/F650GS/hp_16-tutte.pdf
http://digilander.libero.it/belinassu/F650GS/nm_16-tutte.pdf
red line is stock engine
light blued is only with my iat modification
dark blue is only with ecu reprogrammation
i put a 16 teeth sproket with stock bike also
after iat mod i put 17 teeth again
after reprogrammation i wish i would put a 18 teeth because with that torque improvement
i'm looking for a 7th gear while driving...
c
That's impressive, I lack the knowledge and skill to even try. Is that with the street cams? did you need to change the timing?
I chose a plug and play $169 Oxygen sensor spoofer. I have had/have both, that and an Accelerator module. The AF -Xied works better.
To be on the safe side I am running both. One of two things could happen. The temp sensor could get adapted and no longer work or it would add onto the AFR that I have dialed in on the AF-XIED in open loop.
Personally, I think the temp sensor got adapted or I would end up with some terrible fuel mileage. That hasn't occurred as my mileage actually improved at lower speed and I lost 1or2 mpg at freeway speeds.
I chose a plug and play $169 Oxygen sensor spoofer. I have had/have both, that and an Accelerator module. The AF -Xied works better.
To be on the safe side I am running both. One of two things could happen. The temp sensor could get adapted and no longer work or it would add onto the AFR that I have dialed in on the AF-XIED in open loop.
Personally, I think the temp sensor got adapted or I would end up with some terrible fuel mileage. That hasn't occurred as my mileage actually improved at lower speed and I lost 1or2 mpg at freeway speeds.
no, that power increase was only with ecu reprogramming (you can see power slow down after 6000 rpm with stoch f650gs cams)
with f800r cams i got more power over 6000rpm (but i didn't measured it) anyway i saw 220km/h on odometer, never seen before on a f650gs
talking about iat mod it could give very good result without affection of mileage but it is impostant to choose the correct NTC to do the job...
all commercial solution (boosterplug, acceleretor and so on) don't use a good NTC...
some friends used a commercial plug and got further improvement using my iat mod instead....
if you put any additional resistor to iat you'll see an improvement, but to avoid adaptation you must emulate a correct iat bahaviour.
so did i with correct NTC, giving always a correct temperature shift from -10°C to +40°C
but as you can see reprogramming is better, much better
with f800r cams i got more power over 6000rpm (but i didn't measured it) anyway i saw 220km/h on odometer, never seen before on a f650gs
talking about iat mod it could give very good result without affection of mileage but it is impostant to choose the correct NTC to do the job...
all commercial solution (boosterplug, acceleretor and so on) don't use a good NTC...
some friends used a commercial plug and got further improvement using my iat mod instead....
if you put any additional resistor to iat you'll see an improvement, but to avoid adaptation you must emulate a correct iat bahaviour.
so did i with correct NTC, giving always a correct temperature shift from -10°C to +40°C
but as you can see reprogramming is better, much better
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