[kltk1]

Well, that is true. Guess this is food for thought for those thinking about making their next move. That being the case, cams probably aren't terribly expensive but an ECU probably isn't cheap. "IF", that's all that needs to be changed.

 

[tarless]

Maybe swapping the pipes is the way to go

 

[R100GS]

I hear ya Nota, but I rode an F800GT and fell in love with the pickup in the lower end of the rev rang. Same engine and weight and significantly more pull. I never went over 4500 rpm's when I rode it. Much quicker than my GS. I got the 700 because I do considerably more road then dirt and wanted the 17" front on lower height/cog. I didn't get it because it was tamer.
Why can't it have the better performance and still be kept to its purpose? Why are the other 800's SO much perkier?
Don't get me wrong, I love this bike allot, but I just find myself wishing it had the pull of the other 800s, and I experienced that pull in the lower rev ranges. Was I duped because they were demo bikes?

Did you have the dealer perform the first service? The ECU engine map is updated to provide full power. I just had this done and was very surprised at how much more grunt my F700GS had after the remap was done. Also the bike idled noticeably smoother and pulls stronger everywhere.

Those who just change their oil and filter and adjust the chain, etc., at home will be riding a bike significantly down on horsepower unless they get that remap. My bike is a 2013 and I also had the fuel tank replaced at the first service due to cracks.

Just to initiate a pre-emptive strike, I have been riding 30 years and have '12 GSX-R 750, '12 FZ8, and '13 CB1100 in the garage along with the BMW so my butt is pretty well calibrated to sensing the difference in HP.[]

 

[de100kb]

Not trying to challenge your HP sensitivity Danny but as far as I know there is no 'mapping' in the F800 electronics, it is a self learning system which adapts to the riding circumstances. For using different mappings you would need an extra component like a Powercommander.

Could it be they have updated the software on your bike? Not that I'm aware of software updates for any F800 newer than 2008 but our F700 community isn't that big so I could have missed it.

But I could be wrong, I've been proven wrong(ly informed) before []

 

[itsatdm]

I currently have about 500 miles on one of these. http://sales.nightrider.com/F800_c_118.html. It is a 11 position electrical device that en-richens the Air fuel ratio in closed loop. In short, spoofing the oxygen sensor so the ECU "thinks" it is reading 14.7 when in fact another AFR has been dialed in.

Because of the "smartness" of the ECU it adapts the new AFR into open loop settings. It is not really a remap, so all the programs/maps/sensors in and connected to the ECU still interact as stock.

It definately works. You will feel immediate increased torque, especially at lower/mid rpms. Today I increased the AFR setting 1 tick, which seemed to benefit both low and high rpm power.

I have not done any long freeway rides, but goofing around the area, I have not seen any loss of fuel mileage, it may be different on long highway drones.

If you want more info google BMW AF-XIED and no I have no interest or any connection to the manufacture.

 

[hellboy7]

No. The number of map combo's in the ECU will be sufficient to find one that is appropriate.

What a remap would do if possible, or a Power Commander can do is add more fuel to the engine. A richer mixture makes more HP than a lean mixture. These bikes are tuned to provide best emissions.

So is the GT, that is why I am sure its HP gains are done with cams. Maybe some bigger valves or cleaner ports, but basically different cams.

HP is really a measure of how fast an engine can make torque. Spin the engine faster and it makes more power, even if the bike has less torque.

That is where the Triumph beats these bikes. That works great on pavement or the track, not so much off road. These are purposely compromise bikes.

Sure you can do a tune to your bike, but it's also kinda mess with your bike no? I'm assuming that it can also fuck up and destroy the engine long term? My understanding is that the engine/ecu gets changed so theres more stress and power added to it..

 

[itsatdm]

Are you asking about the information you attached your question to or the last post I made about the AF-FIED? I don't advocate replacing cams, ECU's or anything thing else. Cost prohibitive and won't give you 10-15hp anyway.

The AF XIED spoofs the oxygen sensor into thinking a richer fuel map is providing a fuel mixture of 14.7 afr when it is not. It has 11 adjustment settings but only 5 are advised. They range from stock to 13.5. They come adjusted at 14.1. That is 4% richer that stock.That is not very much but it made a remarkable difference in low/mid RPM torque. Today I tested it at 13.8(6%) It seemed to improve power at higher rpms

It may have a long term effect on your emission controls. Richer mixtures don't run as hot. That may effect the catalytic converter. I intend to turn mine back to position 7 because of that.

Do you know of any bikes with a Power Commander? Any of them blow up? There is another F800 rider who exchanged his PC for one of these. The typical HP gain with a PC is about 4 hp. He is Beta testing like me. He likes it because, less hassle to use and give similar seat of the pants power. What is impressive to me so far is the difference in low end torque. Pick a gear, they all work.

This is information only. If you worry about those things run it stock. Something to think about if under warranty. But I didn't ask the "How to make more HP question"

 

[R100GS]

Not trying to challenge your HP sensitivity Danny but as far as I know there is no 'mapping' in the F800 electronics, it is a self learning system which adapts to the riding circumstances. For using different mappings you would need an extra component like a Powercommander.

Could it be they have updated the software on your bike? Not that I'm aware of software updates for any F800 newer than 2008 but our F700 community isn't that big so I could have missed it.

But I could be wrong, I've been proven wrong(ly informed) before []

Service manager told me point blank (straight up) that the initial fuel map was detuned and that during the first service the ignition would be set/remapped to full power. I forgot all about it and after I pulled out of the dealership, it was very obvious that the bike had more power everywhere and ran much better. I've purchased about ten bikes from this dealer, no reason to doubt the service manager, but certainly I felt the difference; bike was turned into being just "fun" to ride into being a "joy" to ride.

Compared to, say, my 1989 R100GS or my more recent KLR650, the F700GS felt about as powerful as the R100GS at best when brand new and not much more powerful than the KLR.

After the service, the power was significantly more than what I recall from the R100GS and would just whomp any KLR. Pulls strong all the way through and I really noticed a difference from the bottom, 2K and up.

US bike, maybe BMW do that here and not elsewhere?

 

[itsatdm]

My 2009 F800gs got a map update several months after I bought it. So it has happened before. One of many Service Upgrades.

 

[tarless]

I didn't notice anything when I got it back from the dealer after the first service. Maybe they did nothing. I'm going in for my 6k service soon and will look into it.

 

[de100kb]

It is a strategy they have used for new S1000RR owners (I recall reading somewhere) that is: using a special software version for the break-in period, but I haven't heard of it being used on other bikes.

If anyone else has had the same experience, please share!

 

[MikeMike]

This whole thread reminds me of Buck, the late '70s stereo salesman, in Boogie Nights.

 

[tarless]

Care to elucidate?

 

[AKBeemer]

My wife rides a 2011 F650GS. The service manager at our dealership told us that they put several 650s and 800s on a portable dyno. According to him the 800s averaged 7 HP more at the rear wheel. Annie is eyeing the new 800GSA pretty seriously so maybe she'll provide a seat of the pants report.

 

[DWS]

Service manager told me point blank (straight up) that the initial fuel map was detuned and that during the first service the ignition would be set/remapped to full power.

Did you know that the F700GS and F800GS can be ordered with reduced power and torque, for beginner, learner riders?
The power for the F700GS can be reduced from 75 hp at 7,300 rpm down to 48 hp at 7,000 rpm, and the torque reduced from 77 Nm at 5,300 rpm down to 60 Nm at 5,000 rpm.
I believe, that your bike must have mistakenly been delivered with the power reduction ... []

 

[R100GS]

Did you know that the F700GS and F800GS can be ordered with reduced power and torque, for beginner, learner riders?
The power for the F700GS can be reduced from 75 hp at 7,300 rpm down to 48 hp at 7,000 rpm, and the torque reduced from 77 Nm at 5,300 rpm down to 60 Nm at 5,000 rpm.
I believe, that your bike must have mistakenly been delivered with the power reduction ... []

Yes, I was aware of that. I did not mention this in the initial post, but my impression was the bike was making around 45-50 HP with commensurate torque. Not a slug but certainly not what I'd expect from a 75 HP engine of 800cc displacement. When I got it back, it felt like a 75 HP bike and I confirmed this yesterday in a couple of hours of riding.

Now I think I know what happened. This was a special order bike, a lowered version with the low seat, a "girl's" bike if you will, whatever that means. It was originally delivered to a different dealer, and got to my dealer through a trade. I would bet a Starbuck's latte that it had been special-ordered with the low-power map but this was not revealed to us (it's my wife's bike) during the transaction, probably because the dealership didn't know it themselves, at least not at the sales staff level.

So it was not a mistake, but a special-order bike that did not get purchased by the original "buyer" for some reason or another. I was wondering at this because it seemed unlikely a completely lowered version would be on the sales floor, as the chances of selling this would be pretty slim.

Thanks for that info, seems to clear up the mystery!

As an aside, the reduced suspension travel on this bike (~130mm front/rear) makes it a terrific handler. The low CG provides excellent cornering agility and the bike is rock-solid in 90 mph sweepers. Same fun factor as my old R100GS but with great brakes and better handling. I am thinking of getting one for myself.

 

[de100kb]

Devon strikes once again! That sounds very likely.

@ Gary: yes I'm aware of that but I've never heard of a software upgrade for any F-bike which gave the result Danny was reporting.

For another fun fact [] on this subject: did you know your bike's software can only be updated 12 times? After that there are no more WORM memory banks available. But no one has ever complained they had to pay for a new on-board computer because they ran out of memory banks so I guess 12 is enough []

 

[MikeMike]

Maybe it is because you are now riding it at over 5,000rpm?

 

[Mokkybear]

The power reduction on the F series isn't a different map, though - it's simply a different sized (larger) pulley at the throttle bodies, meaning full throttle at the wrist is only part throttle at the butterflies.

No memory banks wasted in simply removing the power restriction.

 

[R100GS]

The power reduction on the F series isn't a different map, though - it's simply a different sized (larger) pulley at the throttle bodies, meaning full throttle at the wrist is only part throttle at the butterflies.

No memory banks wasted in simply removing the power restriction.

That may be true in your area but not for a US bike. Also the torque curve would not change with a simple throttle butterfly restriction. There is no doubt at all this bike had the 48 HP map; I went out and rode the piss out of it chasing my buddy on his FZ-09 on a nice tight road, running the engine up to just under 8 grand, on a constant 2nd gear road. No worries keeping up until things started to scrape (this bike is lowered). There is a HUGE difference in power under all conditions, freeway, in town, everywhere. Best handling bike for the real world I've ever ridden since my 1989 GS. Might have to buy the regular suspension version for myself.