Yeah, it's called an F800. Jeeze Anthony, you get the bike that's tuned down and then wanna get more hp? That's why the 800 costs more.[uhoh]
Isn't peak hp usually toward the top of the rev range? You could spend more time in a lower gear and appreciate the 71 hp the 700 is rated for.

 

I hear ya Nota, but I rode an F800GT and fell in love with the pickup in the lower end of the rev rang. Same engine and weight and significantly more pull. I never went over 4500 rpm's when I rode it. Much quicker than my GS. I got the 700 because I do considerably more road then dirt and wanted the 17" front on lower height/cog. I didn't get it because it was tamer.
Why can't it have the better performance and still be kept to its purpose? Why are the other 800's SO much perkier?
Don't get me wrong, I love this bike allot, but I just find myself wishing it had the pull of the other 800s, and I experienced that pull in the lower rev ranges. Was I duped because they were demo bikes?

 

Did you have the dealer perform the first service? The ECU engine map is updated to provide full power. I just had this done and was very surprised at how much more grunt my F700GS had after the remap was done. Also the bike idled noticeably smoother and pulls stronger everywhere.

Those who just change their oil and filter and adjust the chain, etc., at home will be riding a bike significantly down on horsepower unless they get that remap. My bike is a 2013 and I also had the fuel tank replaced at the first service due to cracks.

Just to initiate a pre-emptive strike, I have been riding 30 years and have '12 GSX-R 750, '12 FZ8, and '13 CB1100 in the garage along with the BMW so my butt is pretty well calibrated to sensing the difference in HP.[]

 

The difference is pretty impressive and BMW still managed to provide torque over a wide range of rpm.

If you can read dyno results, they did it the old fashioned way, hotter cams. You can tell that by seeing where the 2 bikes make their maximum torque and HP.

Getting the hp won't be as simple as buying a set of GT cams and installing them. On ADV some one did that with F800gs cams into his F650. After verifying it started, his last post was, "you definitely need the F800gs ECU". I hope he did not blow it up.

Same goes for you. Different cams, need different ignition curves and programming for the injectors, all contained in the GT's ecu. It won't be cheap.

You may get 4-5hp more out of your bike with a Power Commander, headers and exhaust. Better airflow with the ability to richen up the fuel mixture.

Cheapest solution is sell your bike and buy something faster. A Triumph 800 will probably do it.

 

I was at the dealer Sat Morn and asked what the difference was between the 700-800. The sales guy replied about 2000 dollars. 17" rim and 71 HP.
My Wee Strom only makes 65 hp and it feels fine. Maybe I don't want so much from the bikes.

 

I was thinking ECU mapping and pipes is all it would need, but if you're saying cams as well then it's a little too much to have to do. getting 4-5 more HP probably isn't worth it either. As to the Triumph I have a speed triple already, that's probably what's exacerbating the situation, but yes, maybe a trade in for a Tiger roadie in a year or so.
BUT, I will check with the BMW tech I sort of trust and see how much the whole cam/mapping/exhaust upgrade would cost. Not attempting to do that on the cheap. Well, I'll do the exhaust.

Nota, I disagree with that salesman. I rode all the 800's with the exception of the "650's" and the others were way more torquey and quick. Its not merely more HP in the higher rev ranges and a 21 inch front.
For some reason everyone says the wee strom is perkier. But maybe I am asking too much. But with my 202 lbs, 20 lbs of gear, heavy vario top case often filled with stuff, maybe I just weight it down a bit more than some..

 

The mapping in the BMW is pretty complex. It is not a simple map. It is a grid of algorithms, with sensors on the bike that dictate which combination is appropriate for conditions. I don't know of anyone outside BMW that is able to remap it.

The Power Commander can augment the maps by making changes to the signals that go to the injectors.

Basically, if the ECU says open x milliseconds, the Power commander says add Y amount of fuel to that order please.

I have an aftermarket muffler and an Accelerator Module. To my seasoned butt dyno, it adds HP when the bike is running in open mode (oxygen sensor is not reading the Air fuel mixture) That happens when you crank the throttle. It smooth's throttle response more than adding significant HP and it seems to work better on the F800 than on the old F650gs. I don't know of anyone who has posted results on a F700.

 

Hum...this isn't sounding encouraging.. but even if you change the pipe you have to tune the mapping no?

 

No. The number of map combo's in the ECU will be sufficient to find one that is appropriate.

What a remap would do if possible, or a Power Commander can do is add more fuel to the engine. A richer mixture makes more HP than a lean mixture. These bikes are tuned to provide best emissions.

So is the GT, that is why I am sure its HP gains are done with cams. Maybe some bigger valves or cleaner ports, but basically different cams.

HP is really a measure of how fast an engine can make torque. Spin the engine faster and it makes more power, even if the bike has less torque.

That is where the Triumph beats these bikes. That works great on pavement or the track, not so much off road. These are purposely compromise bikes.

 

No. The number of map combo's in the ECU will be sufficient to find one that is appropriate.

What a remap would do if possible, or a Power Commander can do is add more fuel to the engine. A richer mixture makes more HP than a lean mixture. These bikes are tuned to provide best emissions.

So is the GT, that is why I am sure its HP gains are done with cams. Maybe some bigger valves or cleaner ports, but basically different cams.

HP is really a measure of how fast an engine can make torque. Spin the engine faster and it makes more power, even if the bike has less torque.

That is where the Triumph beats these bikes. That works great on pavement or the track, not so much off road. These are purposely compromise bikes.

Sure you can do a tune to your bike, but it's also kinda mess with your bike no? I'm assuming that it can also fuck up and destroy the engine long term? My understanding is that the engine/ecu gets changed so theres more stress and power added to it..

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation Gary. So maybe I can get a little more punch by just changing the exhaust and leaving it at that. Lighten it up a bit too to compensate for all the other stuff I threw on it. It's just not worth screwing with to the extent necessary to turn it into a GT, and yes, the lower spin is obetter for the offroad.
This is making me sort of hungry for the soon to be released revised V-strom 1000. A little heavier and 98 HP while still keeping the torque.

 

Sorry if I just got you guys a bit wrong but the F700GS does have 75hp and 19" front (the 800gs has 21" front) or have I just missunderstood what you're all talking about?

 

Yes Johan, we were talking about the difference in HP between the 700GS and the other 800 models (GS/GT/ST) with the same engine displacement.

 

Anthony, then I got it right, but just confused about two post saying it has 71hp. It's the 650 that has 71hp, the 700 has 75hp.
Not that 4hp are anything to argue about and I can't compare how it feels compared to the 650 since I only ridden (own) the 700.

 

Yeah, the issue is, I like everything about the 700 and don't want the 800 becuase of it's 21" front and higher sitting, but I want it's horse power. Or more noticeable the punch the F800GT has. Just trying to find ways to get there but it doesn't look like doing anything noticeable would come easy, so I'll probably just as a different pipe.
FYI, the F800GS gets 85 HP and the F800GT gets 90 HP, compared to the F700's 75. They get some more torque too.

 

Iteresting that youse guys are unhappy wit the 71-75 HP of the 650 and 700. The R100 series had 70 hp only on the first 100S. The rest were rated lower an they were the big guns of the day. How jaded we get![lol]

 

Like the little girl on the AT&T commercials says: "We want more! We want more!" []

One thing though NOta, cars are getting faster too, and ten years ago I thought 200 HP was amazing and now it's like the starting point. We have to keep up with traffic and it's all relative. The 70HP of yesterday may have been as road "competitive" as todays 85. But yes, we do get jaded when we ride faster bikes then get on a not so fast one. THe contrast can be a little discomforting.

It's all relative my friend. That and I weigh lots more than yesterday! []

 

Yes, the F700 would probably do good with 10-15 more hp but I'm satisfied and it comes down to some economical reasons too. The cams (and what else hardware wise that is different) on the 800 is probably a bit more expensive.
I like my 700. I sat on the 800GS but as you, I found it to be to high for my type of riding. The 75hp is more than enough for me and my type of riding at the moment. I only go heavy load like once per year.

FYI, the Husqvarna Nuda (same base engine as the F700/F800) has 105hp on paper. But it was benched at 117 on crank (108 on wheel) with pcv, exhaust and header. Now why can't BMW use that tech to continue on the twin gs? (especially now when "KTM" has cancled the Nuda) =)

 

I do have to say I'm loving the fuel efficiency so I guess you can't have everything. But getting that HP of the Nuda would be tasty! []

All in all I love the bike, so if boosting it up changed its characteristics too much then it probably wouldn't be worth it. As Gary mentioned it is geared (no pun intended) for some offroading and if I got to do more - it's hard to find dirt roads around here and people to play with- I'd probably really appreciate it's controlled output.

 

I realize I'm late to this party, but, this discussion kinda goes to a question I asked just the other day about swapping a 21" front wheel on an F800GS to a 19". If you like everything about the motor of the 800. Wouldn't it be far more cost effective to put a 19" front wheel on an 800GS with a low seat and be where you would be on a 700 with more HP, a wider back tire and a longer travel suspension? Then tune the seat, suspension and tires to your liking? Seems like you'd have the best of both worlds for far less money and truly get the results you're looking for with readily available parts. Heck, if you wanted to get real crazy you could swap out the shock for a lower one and lower the triple tree's on the forks to lower the bike where you want it. If you're not doing that much offroad anyway, less ground clearance isn't gonna matter all that much. Just some food for thought.

 

More cost effective to get a new wheel, seat and tire? I dunno...but even if so it would require getting a whole new bike[]

 

Well, that is true. Guess this is food for thought for those thinking about making their next move. That being the case, cams probably aren't terribly expensive but an ECU probably isn't cheap. "IF", that's all that needs to be changed.

 

Maybe swapping the pipes is the way to go

 

Not trying to challenge your HP sensitivity Danny but as far as I know there is no 'mapping' in the F800 electronics, it is a self learning system which adapts to the riding circumstances. For using different mappings you would need an extra component like a Powercommander.

Could it be they have updated the software on your bike? Not that I'm aware of software updates for any F800 newer than 2008 but our F700 community isn't that big so I could have missed it.

But I could be wrong, I've been proven wrong(ly informed) before []

 

Service manager told me point blank (straight up) that the initial fuel map was detuned and that during the first service the ignition would be set/remapped to full power. I forgot all about it and after I pulled out of the dealership, it was very obvious that the bike had more power everywhere and ran much better. I've purchased about ten bikes from this dealer, no reason to doubt the service manager, but certainly I felt the difference; bike was turned into being just "fun" to ride into being a "joy" to ride.

Compared to, say, my 1989 R100GS or my more recent KLR650, the F700GS felt about as powerful as the R100GS at best when brand new and not much more powerful than the KLR.

After the service, the power was significantly more than what I recall from the R100GS and would just whomp any KLR. Pulls strong all the way through and I really noticed a difference from the bottom, 2K and up.

US bike, maybe BMW do that here and not elsewhere?

 

I currently have about 500 miles on one of these. http://sales.nightrider.com/F800_c_118.html. It is a 11 position electrical device that en-richens the Air fuel ratio in closed loop. In short, spoofing the oxygen sensor so the ECU "thinks" it is reading 14.7 when in fact another AFR has been dialed in.

Because of the "smartness" of the ECU it adapts the new AFR into open loop settings. It is not really a remap, so all the programs/maps/sensors in and connected to the ECU still interact as stock.

It definately works. You will feel immediate increased torque, especially at lower/mid rpms. Today I increased the AFR setting 1 tick, which seemed to benefit both low and high rpm power.

I have not done any long freeway rides, but goofing around the area, I have not seen any loss of fuel mileage, it may be different on long highway drones.

If you want more info google BMW AF-XIED and no I have no interest or any connection to the manufacture.

 

Are you asking about the information you attached your question to or the last post I made about the AF-FIED? I don't advocate replacing cams, ECU's or anything thing else. Cost prohibitive and won't give you 10-15hp anyway.

The AF XIED spoofs the oxygen sensor into thinking a richer fuel map is providing a fuel mixture of 14.7 afr when it is not. It has 11 adjustment settings but only 5 are advised. They range from stock to 13.5. They come adjusted at 14.1. That is 4% richer that stock.That is not very much but it made a remarkable difference in low/mid RPM torque. Today I tested it at 13.8(6%) It seemed to improve power at higher rpms

It may have a long term effect on your emission controls. Richer mixtures don't run as hot. That may effect the catalytic converter. I intend to turn mine back to position 7 because of that.

Do you know of any bikes with a Power Commander? Any of them blow up? There is another F800 rider who exchanged his PC for one of these. The typical HP gain with a PC is about 4 hp. He is Beta testing like me. He likes it because, less hassle to use and give similar seat of the pants power. What is impressive to me so far is the difference in low end torque. Pick a gear, they all work.

This is information only. If you worry about those things run it stock. Something to think about if under warranty. But I didn't ask the "How to make more HP question"

 

My 2009 F800gs got a map update several months after I bought it. So it has happened before. One of many Service Upgrades.

 

I didn't notice anything when I got it back from the dealer after the first service. Maybe they did nothing. I'm going in for my 6k service soon and will look into it.

 

It is a strategy they have used for new S1000RR owners (I recall reading somewhere) that is: using a special software version for the break-in period, but I haven't heard of it being used on other bikes.

If anyone else has had the same experience, please share!

 

This whole thread reminds me of Buck, the late '70s stereo salesman, in Boogie Nights.