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........... so I was pleased to discover the U.K. SHARP organization........
There is also a French equivalent of SHARP (link below), fortunately they are kind enough to offer an English translation. The testing is different to SHARP and the highest score any motorcycle helmet achieves is 3.5 out of 5. They also don't seem to test for the locking mechanism on modular helmets

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This thread has made me reconsider how I feel about modular helmets, below is a link to an article long story short, rider bought Nolan helmet on the back of SHARP 100% chin bar not unlocking, had a low speed get off and the chin bar unlocked!

Are modular helmets safe in a crash? - Motorbike Writer
 
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Pope Flook
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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Flook, Sorry to hear about your foot, hope you recover well. I expect we've all fallen off whilst stationary, I know I have, usually due to slippy ground or adverse camber.

I have no particular knowledge of Carbon helmet strength, no doubt plenty of info on the web.

With the very slight damage described, I think I'd put the unhinging down to the way it hit the ground & continue wearing it.
Although if you've lost confidence then consider replacing with either a full face, or a flip that scores better on the SHARP flip latch tests The BMW System 6 gets 93% (same as my HJC) The Shoei Neotec 2 which most consider a quality helmet only gets 70%
BMW 6 Evo Sharp test
I do have the system6 evo, I have it as a back up. However, unfortunately, I had to have a new comms unit fitted to the C7 as the older version I had does not work with my TomTom satnav, so I had to have it replaced. One of the things with the C7 is, there now is a covered hole on the side of the C7, this cover can be removed and the new comms system is fitted over it, and the wiring now goes through the hole. Also the battery etc are in opposite places to the system6, so the comms unit it unfortunately not compatible. This leaves me somewhere in the middle and stuck.

I must at this point, thank my local BMW dealer for the discount they gave me on the C7 and even more than I deserved on the comms unit a few weeks later.
I have been offered a discount and a trade-in discount of any helmet (including a cycle helmet) against a replacement. However, being pensioner and money being tight (understatement) I find the cost at this time to be too prohibitive. So I am going to continue to wear the C7, but take advantage of an offer to bring my riding skills up to Police standards with an ex Police trainer. This will help (I hope) for me to get back my confidence after this break (excuse the pun), and to help me overcome my fear of riding on gravel.

I do appreciate the advice given, and I will bear in mind about the chin guard lock mechanism.

Stay safe and ride well all.

Flook 馃槑
 

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There is also a French equivalent of SHARP (link below), fortunately they are kind enough to offer an English translation. The testing is different to SHARP and the highest score any motorcycle helmet achieves is 3.5 out of 5. They also don't seem to test for the locking mechanism on modular helmets

Home | Certimoov

This thread has made me reconsider how I feel about modular helmets, below is a link to an article long story short, rider bought Nolan helmet on the back of SHARP 100% chin bar not unlocking, had a low speed get off and the chin bar unlocked!

Are modular helmets safe in a crash? - Motorbike Writer
No test is fully comprehensive, and real world conditions will always do different damage to lab conditions. We can absorb in the ratings put on gear, but they're pretty much useless unless you crash in a way which is similar to the way material was tested.

I'll always aim to buy gear with a good safety rating, and hope that in the time of need it performs as well/if not better than rated.
 

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Below is SHARPs commentary on Flip Helmet testing: Sharp only test helmets legal for UK, we can deduce that the relevant safety standard does not require the flip to stay locked every time. Latest Sharp test on BMW helmets is for the System 6 EVO which gets all of 3 stars (max 5)

During each of our 30 linear impact tests we note whether the lower face cover has unlatched or unlocked during the impact.

...
So these guys do 30 impact tests before scoring a helmet and we are to believe a simple drop to the ground destroys the helmet?
 
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Pope Flook
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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
That's about it N4HHE. That is helmet manufactures for you, and their suppliers.
 
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There is also a French equivalent of SHARP (link below), fortunately they are kind enough to offer an English translation. The testing is different to SHARP and the highest score any motorcycle helmet achieves is 3.5 out of 5. They also don't seem to test for the locking mechanism on modular helmets

Home | Certimoov

This thread has made me reconsider how I feel about modular helmets, below is a link to an article long story short, rider bought Nolan helmet on the back of SHARP 100% chin bar not unlocking, had a low speed get off and the chin bar unlocked!

Are modular helmets safe in a crash? - Motorbike Writer
Thank you for posting the link to the Motorbike Writer article. The comments were more compelling than the article. "The rider swears the helmet was locked." Was it truly? Likely, we will never know. It would have been interesting if the helmet had been returned to Nolan for their evaluation of the apparent failure. Perhaps it was, did Motorbike Writer follow up?

I too, always ride with the chin bar latched---except for the occasional time when I don't make absolutely certain that it is properly latched. Simple pulling the chin bar down does not guarantee that it is securely latched. Additionally, I would not want for anyone to know, but I have even ridden off without the strap fastened. I am guessing that I am the only one who is so absent minded as to become distracted and forget to fasten the strap.

The Nolan helmet I have is a newer model, the 100-5. The helmet in question is a Nolan 104. However, the chin bar locking mechanism is likely the same. Looking at my helmet, the steel latches on the chin bar latch over a 6 mm steel round bar. The latches are steel flat stock about 0.7 mm. For the latch to fail, it would need to tear the 0.7 mm steel. Certainly not impossible, but I believe the chin bar would break in half before the steel tears.

Of the two buttons that unlock the chin bar, the lower one, which is the one that sustained the damage according to the article, only serves to lock the upper button which actually pulls the latches open. So, totally destroying the lower button would not open the latches; it would only unlock the upper button which would need be pulled down to open the latches. The 6 mm round bar is trapped on both ends; there is no way for the latches to come off sideways regardless of chin bar deflection.

Here are photographs of the latching mechanism.


Automotive tire Automotive design Rim Carbon Automotive exterior


Fluid Rim Automotive design Gas Metal
 

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..........The comments were more compelling than the article. "The rider swears the helmet was locked." Was it truly? Likely, we will never know......
I'm in complete agreement. I suppose this thread has made me think do I need one more possible fail point in the event of an incident.
 

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Very careful with my helmets but sometimes stuff happens! Dropped my current AGV K6 walking in a resturant and it bounced and didn't even chip the paint. I'm a big believer in good helmets and wearing them properly. I have a scooter helmet I wear when around the track on my scooter but its slow speeds and generally a safe environment. If I ride my scooter home from the track it's the AGV K6 - it's not a modular but super light and I love it.

Two parts to a helmet, the outer shell, the inner (usually styrofoam) liner and the lining. LOL well I guess that's three but I'm retired and forgetting all that engineering stuff I used to do! Outer shell is easy to look at an see if I'd in good condition but the foam (styrofoam) liner not so much. Im prone to stuff my gloves in my helmet when setting it down but try and take good care of it. Don't inspect it often enough either. However the foam is the energy absorbing part of the helmet that is critical to protecting the head. Outer shell can be perfect but if the foam is damaged then it will not do its job.

I've seen lots of crashes at the track and watched folks walk away from nasty crashes. Some of them were trying to figure out what day of the week it was! Have seen helmets ground all the way around, one fella (a novice) did a steppie going into Charlottes web at Barber and landed on his head - like a handstand without the hands! He got up and walked to the ambulance. Helmets are no always taken care of but they are very important. I'm kind of with @N4HHE in a slight drop and rolling a ways shouldn't hurt the helmet.

I replace mine every 4 years or sooner if I see one I like. Currently on my second AGV K6, first one has been great but needed a new visor and liner which was close to half the price of a new one and since the old one had 40,000 miles, lots of sweating and some chips I bought a new one. Kept the old one as a backup and for tornado duty. I'll probably replace mine next spring before my next long trip.
 

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I suggest if the O.P. is going to discard his dropped helmet that he take an axe or 5 pound hammer to it and beat it to a pulp "so no one else will be tempted to use it." I strongly suspect in doing so he will realize he destroyed a perfectly good helmet.

We are lead to believe the slightest impact destroys the shell integrity. If so, the shell should shatter on the first impact with hammer or axe.
 
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Pope Flook
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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
What a good idea, loan me yours first to try 馃ぃ馃槀, if it works then I will do the same馃ぃ.
Seriously though, it is my intention to keep it and use it, it is made of carbon, and that is supposed to be ultra strong, so a minor thing like what happened should not have damaged it.

However, my main concern is if this happens to any biker, where part of the helmet should fail in a spill and cause severe head damage due to the failure of the helmet should the helmet make/supplier say there not responsible when it hits the ground dropped or otherwise!!!!! Are they being Serious!!!!!
 

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Not sure if it's still the case but, some of the major helmet manufacturers used to offer an inspection service for a small fee. This may not be the case anymore, you'd have to check with Schuberth.

There are independents who offer this service as well. (Search the MCN archive, there's an article about one such company.)

Used the service once at the BMF Rally in Peterborough back in mid 90's with my then Shoei lid that had hit the deck.







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However, my main concern is if this happens to any biker, where part of the helmet should fail in a spill and cause severe head damage due to the failure of the helmet should the helmet make/supplier say there not responsible when it hits the ground dropped or otherwise!!!!! Are they being Serious!!!!!
Flook if I'd had the experience you outlined in the opening post my main concern would be whether I could trust a modular helmet that chin bar failed in the most minor of circumstances, if I was confident that the chin bar was correctly secured in the lowered position and a hinge failed with a "stop and drop" I personally would be looking to change it regardless of any perceived (or otherwise) impact damage to the helmet shell.

Risk mitigation is a personal choice, and I would not castigate anybody for not electing to make the same decisions I do.

Interesting things I learnt whilst following this post.

It was news to me, Schuberth no longer make BMW's helmets, now assembled in Italy from outsourced components: -

New flip-up helmets from BMW and Schuberth in comparison | (topgear-autoguide.com)

Current European helmet regs (ECE 22.05) have no test for the security of a modular helmet's chin bar following impact test (which may account for the very few 100% success scores in the UK SHARP test and the one pretty appalling 17% success score) New regs are set to take force (ECE 22.06) this will test the security of the chin bar following impact. A number of helmets have already been approved to ECE 22.06 including 2 modular helmets.

AGV Tourmodular

TOURMODULAR ECE2206 MULTI - BALANCE WHITE/GREY/RED (agv.com)

Schuberth C5

SCHUBERTH C5

Outline of the revised ECE 22.06 regs

A comprehensive guide to ECE 22.06: motorcycle helmet testing (billyscrashhelmets.co.uk)
 
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